We're in the Erie room which is a little bit hard to find. It's tucked behind the state rooms on the second level. About 8 minutes until kick-off!
Speakers introduce themselves. "This might be the most controversial topic at BlogHer." Opened it up for audience questions.
Audience member: Why can't we all just get along?
(laughter)
GeekMommy- Well, first let's see a show of hands. How many of you think compensation has a place in blogging? How many of you think that compensation does not have a place in blogging?
Audience member- Amy- You'll find it ironic that I'm a marketer by day and a blogger by night, but I do not feel that there is no place for paid reviews and contests in blogging.
GeekMommy- Everybody has an opinion.
Amy- If you're putting a contest on your blog that is sponsored then you should announce that it's sponsored. Otherwise it's an ad and it's not fair to put it out there like it's your personal opnion.
Audience member - Janice 5minformom- I feel that it's obvious to my readers. It should be common sense. If I'm giving away a product then obviously I didn't go out and buy the product myself. I mean I love my readers but not that much.
(laughter)
(ushering in of late comers)
Haley - lovedbyfamilyandthensome.com - I don't have a large following but I have
had nasty comments over sponsorship. I always tell sponsors that I give my true opnion. I won't bash them but I will reply back and tell them that I cannot reveiw the product. I don't take pay but I take the free items.
GeekMommy- If they did, would you take it?
Haley- I wouldn't give a false opnion, I just wouldn't say anything. But I'm on the line about that because if someone pays me then I'd have to say something nice. But I feel like it wouldn't be true to my readers.
GeekMommy- I want to express my views before we get to far. I am a proponent of paying bloggers. And the reason I believe that it is okay is because I'm asking you to take time away from your families. As far as reviews go, if you only give positive reveiws, then no one has a reason to recruit you. I've written a post on how we don't have a webguide on how to run contests and giveaways. It's one thing to write passionately, but if you're writing on behalf of a company, then it's okay for them to buy your time.
Ann-Marie Nichols (AMN) - Some of the business people are slimy and you feel slimy for considering them. But there are people who review things online and get paid. If you don't think it's worth it then don't do it.
GeekMommy- to audience -Please don't feel like you can't exress your opnion.
Audience member - I've been blogging for 3 years, and I've never been offered a review. And the rest of the infertility group probably feels the same, because you know we don't have any money. But the thing I've been noticed is that in the news business, they don't follow any ethical guidelines. So why is the FTC going after us?
AMN- Because we're women and we're moms so we must be idiots.
AMN- And our readers must be idiots too. So they're "susceptible" to the marketing.
GeekMommy
- We're doing this. It's the 21st century. There's a certain level
where if you're under 25, you ignore the advertisements. You don't see
the flashy things. They've tracked the eye movements. Reviews are the
future of marketing. If a mommy tells me about a sponge that works, it
means far more to me than if a model holds it up on TV and says it's
fabulous. We are the future of marketing. We get to decide where we're
going with this.
Audience member- I recently agreed to review
something, I don't do it often, but they actually sent me the content
of what I was supposed to do. (gasps) And I said basically "F... you" I
don't understand this because I want to hear about what is good and bad.
AMN-
You hear about people getting sued. They can sue you over anything they
want. They might not win but it's a hassle and you spend money. Errance
policies are $5000 a year.
Audience member (Jennifer Tagger -thesmartmom)- Not always. I know about some insurance that's cheaper.
Resourceful Mother - Become an LLC and it will help protect your house and our money.
AMN - Talk to an attorney.
Recourceful
Mom- If you're a site that is reviewing products and you review
everything. If you're only looking for positive reveiws then there is
no reason for negative reviews. But I think it's important to put it
out there that not everything is for everyone. I always say at the
bottom that something might not be for a certain group.
GeekMommy- There's a difference between a recommendation and a review. Good point!
Audience
member- I wanted to address one thing that you said about how they're
picking on us because we're women and we're stupid. I think it
undercuts it.
AMN- I believe that.
Audience member- It's not true. The government is severly going after doctors, drug companies and device companies.
GeekyMommy- They're protecting the public when they can't help themselves.
Allie (Fussypants) - We don't have a lobby. We don't have well-paid attorneys to say, "back off the mommybloggers."
GeekyMommy- Can I please ask that no matter how you feel about this, please go and have your voice heard in the FTC debate.
Audience
member- The second part of my comment, was that I started my blog as a
writing excercise. I have reviewed things of my own volition and asked
if I want a thank you note from the company. I felt like I didn't know
what to say.
GeekMommy- You don't need to retract your opinion just because someone said thank you.
Allie (Fussyoants) - I know this isn't a political panel, but I'm very concerned about the FTC overreaching.
GeekMommy-
I should write about how to reach them. When it comes right down to
them, I really do believe that we're a government of the people and not
about the people.
Audience member- I think it's important to
offer feedback with constructive criticism in it. I would never even
think to write and all-positive review. I'm overwhelmed with how many
reviews out there are crap. And I think we should get paid for thorough
reviews.
Audience member- I think some people are just about
getting free stuff. I have no problem saying that "They gave this to
me." I'd write a normal post about it. I spoke with someone yesterday
and she was saying that you're not going to need to worry about all of
this. People are making a bigger deal than it is. Do you see that?
(general uproar)
GeekMommy-
The FTC is trying to decide if they think it's ethical for bloggers to
accept payment. We're ten years into blogging, but not 10 yrs into
dealing with companies.
Audience members- Adam- It's not so much
the concern for you, but it's the concern for the companies. They're
worried that the companies will stop sending out blanks.
GeekMommy- The lawyers hate social media.
Audience
member- For the bloggers that are scared to take stuff. I work with
traditional media and they get stuff all the time. I can guarantee that
magazines don't put all of the stuff out there. They pick the ones that
they have best contact with. Obviously we don't want negative reviews,
but it's a chance to see if people would like stuff better.
GeekMommy- Tell the company that they can interact in the comments with readers.
AMN- I'd like to see that too. They're scared to do that.
Audience
member- If mom bloggers are being targeted now, then who will be
targeted next? Am I going to be next? Should I start writing reviews.
GeekMommy- If someone sends you something unsolicited you are under no obligation to review it.
Audience
member- I can tell you that I've had reviews done about my company
since it started and I would never expect someone to review it for
nothing. I'm a review blogger also, and by the same token, I'm going to
accept the product. I'm not blogging for applesauce. I'm giving my own
opinion. I'll say "this worked" or "there are reasons why this might
not be for you." I'm expecting constructive criticism as well as the
general accolades.
GeekMommy- You're right. You don't have to
charge money. You need to be able to say that you wanted to review
them. You aren't betraying all womankind for doing a review with or
without pay.
AMN- And you have the right to change over time too.
I don't have as much time as I used to. And I'm burnt out on things I
did five years ago. It's a learning process.
Audience member - I think the real issue is that there are fees behind the contests and giveaways. Like for instance, we don't know how much 5minformom was given for the item.
Janice- 5minformom- I have a requested fee so that I can pay my staff. But it is requested, and if a company is too poor to pay it then we'll still do the giveaway. But because I have a staff to pay and we are offering a service to the company, then I give them the opportunity to pay.
GeekMommy- Don't ever feel pressured to do what someone else tells you to do with your blog. You can take a PR break. You know what's best for your blog.
Audience member- In the beginning days we were sent a lot of stuff that we didn't like. If we get something that we don't like then what should we do. If I start writing negative about Frigidair would Whirlpool look at me in five years and say, "We're never working with them again?"
Audience member- PR person- We look to engage moms because we want to know what you truly think. We want to know why you don't like it. In the long run, we're looking to understand better what you want.
Audience member- ok but telling you is one thing and putting it on the world wide web is another thing. Do you really want me to tell everybody?
Audience member- To be fair, you don't get black listed or not contacted. But if you keep saying that the product sucks over and over, then the company might send it to someone else.
GeekMommy- Constructive criticism is important.
Audience member - PR for Intel - We want to learn, and it's the new thing. I don't represent the whole corporate America. A lot of the worries expressed here about being sued and never being contacted again, you don't have to worry about this. Our policy is that we don't pay for reviews. It's important to us that you disclose to your readers that we sponsored you because we care about how people perceive the company.
GeekMommy- It bothers me that you say that your policy is not to pay bloggers.
Intel- I want to know how I can help you within the confines of our policies. The real issue is tansparency.
AMN- Next year, if everyone in this room says "We don't do unpaid reviews, how likely is Intel to change the policies?"
Intel - I think there needs to be room for change. Right now we don't pay the media.
Susan - One of the things, the companies are just figuiring this out as companies. Part of the problem is that PR is over there and Advertising is over here. The change needs to come there. I think there's room for all of these types of sponsorship because you have to keep your readers. Give the companies a break as they learn this whole new system.
GeekMommy- this conversation won't end when we walk out of the room.
audience member- journalist - what i can say is this. If you're accepting products, don't worry about that. It's very common for reviewers to accept products. Journalists might buy products for review or request them. I think the FTC thing is a sign of respect. They see you as a big voice and see how it could get shady. I think the overall intent is to say that you're an influential group. Draw the line at taking money for writing an ad.
GeekMommy - Having an opinion is important.
Audience member- Tiger Woods plays gold as a labor of love. But the Nike shirt he wears was not a product they gave him to take home. They paid for it.
Audience member - What about these women out there who couldn't afford to come to BlogHer? They might need that money to put food on the table. They might be happy to have the applesauce and diapers.
AMN- True. $100 can make a big difference in a week for some people.
GeekMommy- And unemployment is 10% at this time. Some people would be more than happy to receive what they can get.
Audience member- Back to the FTC thing. They don't have the capacity to police it all.
(general uproar)
Audience member- I mean that I'm concerned people will start attacking each other. It's a bit scary that people will start looking around and saying "You're not doing this right."
BlogHer Business '09 Presentations ›
Submitted by CityStreams (view blog) on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 2:28am
Posted In BlogHer '09 Live-Blogging
Comments (11)
Comments
Holy Misinformation. Wow.
I'm a little concerned about some of the misinformation about the FTC proposal that seems to be out there as a result of this panel, and the generally one-sided perspective on things which missed an opportunity to offer genuine guidance to bloggers seeking it.
But the thing I've been noticed is that in the news business, they
don't follow any ethical guidelines. So why is the FTC going after us?
AMN- Because we're women and we're moms so we must be idiots.
AMN- And our readers must be idiots too. So they're "susceptible" to the marketing.
First of all, journalists do in fact have guidelines and I find it a little odd to hear no one refute the accusation here. Recently one of the NYT columnists was forced to return his payment for a keynote speech to a corporation. Magazines keep editorial and advertising separate. And while bloggers don't have that luxury, surely we could put our heads together and try and figure out some ways to work this out.
Also, the FTC is not actually "after" moms or mommy bloggers or women in general. If you'll read the document (it's about 86 pages), you'll see the issue is deceptive marketing practices on the part of the marketers who are using blogs (among other things) to promote unsubstantiated claims, or to disseminate testimonials that sound like consumer reviews but are actually paid. That's where bloggers need to watch out.
That said, most of the document deals with things like weight loss claims and hair loss remedies and affiliate programs. Not free apple sauce.
Audience member- Tiger Woods plays gold as a labor of love. But the
Nike shirt he wears was not a product they gave him to take home. They
paid for it.
According to the FTC, celebrities are different because there is a general assumption (ie, no we're NOT stupid) that they were paid to do that TV spot. There is not an assumption that someone who googles a product and ends up at a mommy blog is equally on the payroll.
Here's the reality: Once you accept money from a marketer you are on the payroll and it seems reasonable that you are held accountable to the same standards as their ad agencies and production companies.
GeekMommy- It bothers me that you [Intel] say that your policy is not to pay bloggers.
Actually Intel has a wonderful reputation as supporting bloggers. They did a big conversational marketing program last year with the Federated Media authors, including my own site, and they're currently sponsoring the "Bucket List" posts at mightygirl.net
That is not at all the same as paying for reviews.
This isn't about whether moms have the right to make a living or not. Of course we do! But this discussion should be about whether it's okay to be dishonest (if not to outright deceptive) because you think it will get you a better refrigrerator down the road.
I'm sorry there was a missed opportunity to provide some common sense guidelines for those who wish to monetize their blogs.
It would be nice to hear discussions about disclosure policies, indemnity agreements with sponsors, and ways to maintain reader trust even as we all hope to make a living.
Mom-101
Cool Mom Picks.com
Submitted by Mom101 on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 09:30
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Misinformation is right, but not in the way
you think
Liz:
This is the first chance I've had to read this live-blog of the event - and sadly, it kind of points out the limitations of live-blogging.
It is *very* difficult to actually transcribe a live event accurately - so as a result, you get summaries, paraphrases, text without context (either emotional or verbal) and in general? Some misinformation.
I'm actually not a fan of live-blogging for those very reasons. You're judging our session based on a second-hand report transcribed by someone else, but you weren't there to actually witness the event.
Just reading over this, I find a few errors that substantially change the meaning of what was said. To whit: above it says "I've written a post on how we don't have a webguide on how to run contests and giveaways." What I actually said (and wrote about) was "I've written a post on how we don't have a web guy to run our contests and giveaways for us." -- those are two very different concepts.
There was much discussion on how journalists from larger publications do adhere to a strict ethical code, but that a) from one audience member's experience as a former journalist for smaller, less recognized publications, those ethics were seldom enforced, and b) that in certain circles (the example that sticks out was Beauty & Fashion magazines) it is in fact common practice to accept items "for review" that show up time and again in the "suggested for Season X" sections of the magazine rather than being disclosed.
If you had been at the session - you would've known that Anne-Marie's comments were said tonally with much sarcasm. You also would've known that I am a huge proponent of the FTC adopting guidelines - but that I think they need to focus on more than just "Mom Bloggers" but the field of bloggers in general. I also gave considerably more information on what the FTC is and does and why we need it.
There's a reason that we have live conference sessions rather than just passing out pamphlets or blogging, and that's for the interaction - to judge a session based on one written account of it is probably not the best manner of deciding whether or not it was the source of the "misinformation" you believe is being given out.
There is an old adage in the legal field that however many witnesses you have to an event, that's how many variations you will have on what actually happened, and somewhere in there lies the actual event. Additionally, there's a reason that court reporters use transcription machines and have considerable training in accurate recording... Live blogging gives you a sense of what it was like to be there, including mishearing things you might as an audience member or even speaker - but to use it to decide whether a session was giving out valid information or not is probably not your best course of action.
Lucretia (aka GeekMommy) Raising a child in a digital world, still a dig
ital girl
Submitted by GeekMommy on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 12:05
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Thanks Lucretia
Am very happy to hear the clarification. You're right, I can only go on the live blog and the perspectives from others in the room who are commenting here and elsewhere. It's almost like it was two different sessions! Would love to hear the audio/video if there was any done.
Mom-101
Cool Mom Picks.com
Submitted by Mom101 on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 12:17
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Journalist Ethics
I want to echo Liz' comments about traditional media. If you visit any of the major news organizations' websites, you'll find an ethics policy. They often aren't even allowed to have a sponsored meal or beverage without a conflict. The difference is that members of traditional media are paid to write those reviews by their companies.
I don't believe in paid reviews. I think it's nearly impossible to get any sort of impartial opinion if you're paying someone. Who's going to say they hate a product if they're getting paid? I believe that there are two solutions. The first is that we find ways to monetize our blogs through more formal advertising opportunities and I think this is feasible as companies start looking to shift their advertising from traditional media to blogs. The second is to call a spade a spade. If you only want to say the good things, stop calling it a review and start calling it a recommendation.
I'm interested to see how this all pans out. I don't believe that most people visit blogs to get real reviews on topics. They visit for the giveaways. I suspect that companies are going to start getting wise to this over time and make a shift in how they handle blogging campaigns.
Christy
Submitted by MoreThanMommy on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 09:50
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Sponsored panel liveblog
I was the "Susan" who spoke, and the paraphrase of my comment shows one of the dangers of liveblogging events. My comment was far broader than is represented here, and I am certain included mention of the importance of disclosure and integrity on both sides, bloggers and marketers.
I'm also baffled at the continued confusion of what is going on regarding the FTC guidelines. These guidelines take absolutely no position on whether bloggers should be compensated, either directly or with free product.
However, if they are compensated, the FTC plans to apply its guidelines on commercial endorsements, which as Mom 101 points out, were created to protect consumers from deceptive advertising practices.
That's ALL bloggers, not just moms.
I don't mean to oversimplify, but a really good start for any blogger is to disclose your policies on your blog. Whatever they happen to be.
Submitted by Susan Getgood on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 09:59
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I was the only one who raised my hand
When asked if it was okay or not to accept money for a post, I was the only one in the room who raised my hand AGAINST. I was quoted in the live blog as saying "You'll find it ironic that I'm a marketer by day and a blogger by
night, but I do not feel that there is no place for paid reviews and
contests in blogging."
This is a tiny portion of what I had to say. I was astonished that anyone would think it is OK for bloggers to accept payment for posts or giveaways WITHOUT DISCLOSING that they've been compensated. A paid post or giveaway is ADVERTISING and should be treated as such.
One of the reasons brands have courted mommybloggers is our reputation for honesty and authenticity. If we can be bought, we lose our credibility. If we lose our credibility, I'm confident we'll lose our readers too.
I wrote about this controversy in more detail on my blog and I'm speaking with Chicago's CBS News anchor Dorothy Tucker about my position later today.
www.marketingmommy.net
Submitted by Marketingmommy on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 10:08
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I Was There, Too
@MarketingMommy I was in this session as well and honestly wasn't paying attention to hear the question and raise my hand. I staunchly believe in disclosure as I'm sure the vast majority of that room does as well. So, I don't want people to assume that everyone in that room believes they can get paid for posts without disclosing because that's just not true.
If I remember correctly, the question was also worded in an odd way which may have been confusing to a lot in the room. I know a lot of pro-disclosure people in that room, including myself.
Founder of the Mom Bloggers Club | Editor of The Mom Salon | Blogger at Mothering.com
Submitted by JenniferJames on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:03
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You weren't alone actually
From the front of the room? There were about a half-dozen or more who raised their hands against. :)
Lucretia (aka GeekMommy) Raising a child in a digital world, still a digital girl
Submitted by GeekMommy on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 12:09
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I knew the sarcasm wasn't going to translate
It's Anne-Marie Nichols (AMN) here. First, I didn't mean to say that the FTC was picking on mom bloggers. My point about mom bloggers being picked on was by the mainstream media, not the FTC.
I am upset that journalists continue to pick on bloggers who are moms and women as the example of bad bloggers who don't disclose freebies/payment without really checking out the details and saying that one mom blogger (or a handful of them) represents all mom or female bloggers. It's lazy and doesn't give an accurate picture.
I would like to challenge AdWeek, Newsweek, the New York Times, et al, to look at tech bloggers (both male and female), sports equipment bloggers, gaming bloggers, food bloggers, etc., etc. and see what they're doing as far as taking free or sample products, disclosure, etc.
But they don't, in my opinion, because it's easy to pick on moms with an attitude of, "Oh look at the cute little mommies and what they're doing in their spare time when they're not wiping baby bottoms." It's dismissive especially when many of these women had professional careers before they "off-tracked" and stayed home to raise kids.
I hear the same attitude expressed by traditional media every time they do a Mommy Wars (SAHM vs. outside the home working moms) story and it ticks me off because traditional media considers moms "cute" (which is basically saying stupid) and not to be taken seriously as thinking human beings with considerable economic, social, and political power.
As far as the session went, I believe everyone agreed that FULL DISCLOSURE and having a clear policy page on your blog is a must. I'd like to see it done on all blogs, no matter what their subject matter, as well as traditional media sites. Why traditional media? It's because my regional paper, The Denver Post, and many of the food and women's magazines I read seem to feature many of the same products I'm being pitched to by PR people, publishers, and companies. Coincidence? I think not.
Submitted by mamarant on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 16:46
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Readers are Smart but They Don't Make the
Same Assumptions
This comment bothered me:
Audience member - Janice 5minformom- I feel that it's obvious to my readers. It should be common sense. If I'm giving away a product then obviously I didn't go out and buy the product myself. I mean I love my readers but not that much.
It may be obvious to some of you who have review sites, do a lot of giveaways and/or are contacted by a lot of companies sponsoring these situations. But it isn't that way for all bloggers. Not every blogger who does a review or giveaway is given the item by a company for free. I know I’ve read those bloggers and sometimes I enter their contests.
I blog about green living, saving money, and decorating. I write reviews of items on my blog. Some are items I’ve won in a contest. Some are items I’ve purchased myself or received as a gift from a person I know (not a company.) And yes, sometimes I review items that a company hasn’t given me. I think it’s important that I tell my readers where I get the products I write about. I also think that it’s important to list the pros and cons of each item I review so my readers can judge for themselves if the item will work for them. Basically, I try to conduct and write the types of reviews I personally find helpful and read.
We can't always asume that our readers will know when you're given an item for free or are a paid company spokesperson because in essance that's what paid reviews are. If a blogger is being paid for their endorsement or even for running a giveaway I want to know, because if the company is paying the blogger then they may be telling the blogger what they should say about their product. I want to know that up front that I have to take what they say about something with a grain of salt.
Condo Blues Green living and money saving tips http://condo-blues.blogspot.com/
Submitted by Condo Blues on Tue, 08/11/2009 - 17:04
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Readers are not always "readers"
I tend to forget myself that not all readers to my blogs are dedicated readers. About half come from google search, and of course there are links from other blogs. If you do a giveaway it's often linked on dedicated giveaway sites. so you bring up a really good point that not all blog readers operate with the same level of understanding about the blog.
Mom-101
Cool Mom Picks.com
Submitted by Mom101 on Tue, 08/11/2009 - 17:20
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GeekMommy - Having an opinion is important.
Audience member- Tiger Woods plays gold as a labor of love. But the Nike shirt he wears was not a product they gave him to take home. They paid for it.
Audience member - What about these women out there who couldn't afford to come to BlogHer? They might need that money to put food on the table. They might be happy to have the applesauce and diapers.
AMN- True. $100 can make a big difference in a week for some people.
GeekMommy- And unemployment is 10% at this time. Some people would be more than happy to receive what they can get.
Audience member- Back to the FTC thing. They don't have the capacity to police it all.
(general uproar)
Audience member- I mean that I'm concerned people will start attacking each other. It's a bit scary that people will start looking around and saying "You're not doing this right."
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